700 000 leads a day. The biggest financial affiliate network in the world: LeadGid!

I don’t want to work with a girl because most
girls are stupid, give me some guy. So, how many leads do you generate daily? 20,000. 20,000 leads? How much do you think LeadGid cost as a business? On Russian market we are the biggest ones. How much your top affiliates are making a
month? Wow! That’s quite a number. Let’s give a prize for our audience. Probably a Porsche, yeah? What is up, lads? It’s ZorbasMedia here. This episode is going to be very special. Today we are having a lady for the interview. It’s our first time, and I feel actually a
little bit nervous. Ksenia is an owner and managing partner of
LeadGid, an international financial affiliate network with offers in more than 20 countries. They generate around 100,000 leads daily. We agreed that I spent a day with Ksenia and
check for myself what it takes to run a super successful online business, which is usually
to be considered as a male-dominated field. Before we start, I gently remind you to subscribe
to this channel in order to stay updated with our new episodes, and we are going to have
many. Now, make yourself comfortable and let’s begin. I personally see affiliate marketing industry
as a harsh business, business of big money, business of predators, if you like. Have you ever experienced that you are not
taken seriously because you are a woman? Of course, a lot, a lot, especially when people
don’t know me. This is quite common. And maybe even for now, but now, of course,
LeadGid is well known in our business, in financial affiliate marketing, but before
it was quite common that people would think that, you know, even if I worked there, that
I’m probably just a mascot, you know. Do you believe that any kind of sexism, stereotyping
against women, is still strong today? Of course, especially in Russia. Well, do you prefer to recruit men or women? It’s very hard to say. I’m most… most often it doesn’t really matter, really. Well, let’s put it this way. Do you have some senior women in addition
to you in your company? Yes, of course. Do you think that affiliates like more or
feel more comfortable to work with female account managers? It’s… it’s complicated because… because
we’re talking about finance. I know that in different niche it’s different,
but in finance it’s… it’s not easy, and affiliates are waiting to get, like, really
expertise from their affiliate manager, and sometimes we even have the cases when they
just wrote us telling me that, you know, I don’t want to work with a girl because most
girls are stupid, give me some guy. And how did you address that? Well, the client is always right. We… sometimes we change, but, to be honest,
now we have quite many girls in the affiliate department, and they’re very professional,
and those affiliates who have them, they’re very lucky not just because these are beautiful
girls, and they are beautiful. Maybe you’ve seen that way of promoting in
our campaign. But they’re very professional with… with
a good experience. You have several businesses, but you mostly
associate yourself with LeadGid? What is that that you like especially about
affiliate marketing? I cannot say that I like it very much, but
I’m in this business for seven years. So, it’s like, you know, being at home. I already know everyone, know the ecosystem. I’ve got that, like, longer relationship with
affiliates and with their advertisers. So, it’s already something that I know and
something that I… that I feel good at. And because for now, especially in Russia,
we’re number one, and, you know, it always feels very good to be number one. How many businesses do you have in total? It’s hard to answer this question because
some of them are… So many of them. …integrated. But independent units? I think… seven or eight. Wow. And would be… Nine, nine. Nine. Would be LeadGid the most profitable one,
the biggest one? Yes, for now it is. And was it your first business? The business that I’m doing right now, yes,
it’s the first, but before LeadGid I have a quite small, like, creative agency. All right. So, it all has started from creative agency. Yes, it did. Cool. Which is not so traditional, I would say. Do you remember how much did you invest initially
to start it up? Good question. I know in rubles, just one sec, I will convert
if you don’t mind. Yeah. I know that conversion rate was different
back then. Yeah. Well, yes, now it would be around 130 euros. Back then probably less in euros. But for now I’m thinking that… One hundred thirty euros? Thousand. Thousands euros. Three features that make Binom Tracker good
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Binom will switch your rotation automatically. Try Binom Tracker with our discount. Details in the description. Ksenia, do you think that affiliate networks
are attractive assets for investors? No, not at all. No. Why? Why do you think so? Is it risky or is it hard to understand or…? I think normally they have no value, as the
investors say. I was communicating with a couple of them,
with big funds, and normally the problem for them is that, you know, it’s all about the
relations. So, it’s not hard to get tracker or even if
you have your own tracker, it’s not hard to do something like this once more, you know,
again, to repeat it. So, I would rather say that classical affiliate
networks as ours and as most of them in the Russian market or European market are not
attractive for investment because they are more about relations between people rather
than technology. Do you think that it is possible to sell an
affiliate network as a, you know, working business? It’s possible to sell anything if you’re a
good seller. Yeah, of course, there are actually cases
even in Russian market that the affiliate network was sold. Normally I think it’s done when the buyer
doesn’t see it as a separate business, but he has something similar that can, you know… Yeah, like, to achieve some synergy, kind
of. Yes, yes. If you have synergetic effect, it might be
interesting like… How…? Sorry, like, for instance, if you have microfinance
company and you have to, you know, get inside information and grow faster. Maybe if you have enough money, you can buy
one. How much do you think LeadGid cost as a business? If we’re talking about selling it, what price
would you at least consider? It’s… it’s hard to say now, actually. I had some numbers a couple of years ago when
we had serious negotiations. About selling? Yes, exactly. But the guys wanted cash-in, and we didn’t
need cash-in, actually, because we have enough funds and we know where we’re going. So, the only option we were looking at is
cash-out, and they already had very negative experience with that, and so… What the price was negotiated? It was… it was two and a half milliard rubles. Two and a half million robles? Not million, milliard. Milliard robles? Billion? Two and a half billion rubles? Yes. So, we have to convert into euros. But it was back then. So, that was… Guys, help me count two and a half billion
rubles in dollars. I do it. I have my phone. Oh, no. In euros it will be 26 million. 26 million euros? And now the price should be, like, higher,
I guess. Yeah, but I don’t really think it’s worth
for somebody buying, because, as I told you, I really believe that it’s more about the
relations, you know. If, like, the top management or the top 10
most important persons will leave the company, I don’t know if it will be able to operate
for much longer. Let’s focus now on LeadGid. Yeah. As an affiliate network. Can you give me an idea how big you are now? Your key numbers, number of affiliates, leads
that you generate. Yes. Regarding the turnover, I will not be able
to tell that because for the employees we have NDA, and they are not allowed to give
out any numbers. So, it would be not good if I would… if
I would disclose this NDA. Well, on Russian market we are the biggest
ones. For most of the microfinance companies and
banks, we give from 30 to over 50% of all their online channel traffic. Mm-hmm. And this is…. sometimes the guys ask us,
like, “How do you know that you’re the biggest?” This is how we know, because we are friends
with our clients and normally if we ask what what kind of share we give them, they answer. So, this is how we know. Number of affiliates, I think we have, like,
registered accounts over 25,000 something, but of course it’s just… I think simultaneously it’s around a thousand
who constantly get payments every two weeks. One thousand. Yeah, something like this. You are… you have been around for seven
years… Yeah. …if I am correct. And do you see substantial growth over these
years? Do you grow every year as a business? It wasn’t like this during all of the period. We had really bad times. We… I had time, I think it was 2014, when we basically
had to fire just everyone. Everyone? Yes, it’s just one, one IT guys. Who is doing the business then? Me myself, yes. If you are interested, I can tell you shortly
how it was. Surely, yeah. Yeah, we were growing, and then it was all
good, and it was the period when all the banks were paying, you know, for each lead, but
it was 2012-13, and at the end of ‘13 there came this crisis. And, you know, it all… kind of all the bad
things happened with LeadGid, because I was so sure that we are growing and I was pregnant
with my second child. So, I hired a manager from the outside to,
you know, to manage all of the stuff while I will be a couple of months home. And when I, when I came back to office in
2014, I was like, wow, we have almost no good clients because all the banks left, we have
not very good relations with a couple of banks because they were not happy with our traffic,
and we have a lot of debts to the affiliates and we have no money, and this is all. Wow. Yeah. I really, I really wanted to sell my company
to some homeless person and just disappear. And you had to fire everyone, didn’t you? Yes, yes, exactly. How did you feel? I felt awful. I actually felt awful because I was also maybe
emotionally in this kind of stage, you know, with three months or four months old baby
at home, and with all kinds of debts and, you know, most of the affiliates, of course,
angry that we’re not paying, and no money, and no… It seems to me that there was no solution,
and then my husband told me, “You have to just start doing everything by yourself.” And I was like, “Huh, what? I never even communicated to the affiliates,
I never did this, I don’t know them.” Because we had an affiliate department who
was dealing with it. I knew the clients mostly, but not the affiliates,
but he kind of pushed me and I was like crying,”Oh, I cannot do this.” It was really hard. And you started doing everything yourself? Yes, I literally fired everyone. So, yes, and I took all of the lists of the
affiliates and I had, like, the list here and here are our debts. And I just took the phone or Skype or whatever
and I started calling and saying like, “Hello, whatever, Denis. My name is Ksenia and I’m the owner of LeadGid. You don’t know me because you communicated
with this guy and this guy, but I’m the owner, and we have a really bad situation now, but
if you help us a little bit, we’ll try to pay you out as soon as possible.” And with most of the affiliates I actually,
I managed, I managed to… To get back the traffic. Yes, we agreed that they give us some traffic
and we’ll… with each payout we pay 10% extra to cover the previous debt. Did you manage to pay back all the debts? Did you settle them all? Yes, yes. Actually, except for… for one guy. What happened to that guy? No, actually, we agreed that… we agreed
the same scheme, and he was working with us for two months and then he just disappeared
for, whatever, a couple of years. Yeah, probably, if he’s watching our interview,
hey! Come back, collect your debt. Yeah, he disappeared and then he came back
and told me, “Okay, probably you feel now better and you can pay me out all of the debt,
like, at once.” I told, “No, because actually you are also
a little bit guilty in the situation that we had back them because I know you were selling
big volumes of traffic, which wasn’t quite good, and this was also the reason why the
bank stopped working with us.” So, I told, “Let’s stick to the previous
scheme, you know, you you start working and we pay you back the debt in the parts.” But he was, he was not happy with it. What have you been doing right as a leader
that make your company become so big and so successful? I think I was… I hope I was communicating rightly, correctly
with the people and… I think I… I never cheated and I never lied to our partners. And I guess also… I choose the right partners. Right partners. You mean companies that you work with or affiliates
that you work with? Companies, affiliates because for… back
then for some of the affiliates I made like exclusive offers, and it really helped us. Do you have any business partners? Not in LeadGid, but in other businesses, yes. Tell me more about who are your affiliates. Are they more individuals or that is companies
that do lead generation, for example? Like… sometimes they look as the companies,
but in the end they are just individuals. So, these are just some guys, they might have,
like, I don’t know, IT team also, they might have even some employees, but in the end it
is just one person who might have helpers. Just to encourage and inspire, you know, other
affiliates, tell me how much your top affiliates are making a month? Like, your biggest top guys? The payout? Yeah. Well, over… over 40 million rubles per month. 40? All right. So, need to divide again. Guys, can you help us? How much? Seven hundred thousand. Seven hundred thousand dollars a month? You have such affiliates? Wow. All right. Wow! That’s quite a number. Tell me what kind of offers do you have? I know that you focus on financial offers,
but what they are? Microcrediting, loans, what else? Yes, it’s micro… it’s payday loans, it’s
cash loans, credit cards. Basically, that’s it. And now there is also a trend, like, brokers. So, it’s like affiliate makes a website which
normally looks like a microfinance company, but actually he is collecting traffic and
monetizing it through other microfinance companies. Oh, like an aggregator? Yes, it’s also like a trend. Mm-hmm. On your opinion, how financial offers are
different from any other kind of affiliate offers? They’re very much regulated, I would say. So, it’s… it’s more serious market than
nutra, et cetera. And we can see it even, you know, if you…
if you just meet financial affiliates and meet, I don’t know, nutra affiliates or whatever,
gaming affiliates, they’re totally, totally different people. So, you need to comply with regulation rules
in order to promote that, right? It’s regulation, and it’s, it’s quite hard
market. It’s not easy for an affiliate to enter it,
but, on the other side, we have… we have also different examples. Like, one year ago we were promoting one case
when a kid, he was 15 years old, he started to promote financial offers in social networks,
in VKontakte, you know. And, yes, he was quite a success, he made
good money, you know. A 15-year old guy. He is still working with us. What are the main barriers to enter the market? You said that it’s kind of not easy to do. Because, you know, there is limited… I would say it’s limited amount of tools that
you can use. It’s mostly paid traffic, sometimes SEO and
basically, yeah, a little bit of social networks and basically that’s it. Yeah, let’s talk a little bit about traffic
sources. I wanted to ask you what traffic sources are
just not converting at all for financial offers? What traffic sources are not suitable for
financial offers? Not even worth to try. I would say everything except official paid
search and SMS and email, nothing else. The ones that are working are SEO… Yeah. Social traffic like Facebook and other social
networks. Not so good, yeah, but working. And email? And SMS. And SMS. So, what would be the best one, on your opinion? Ah… Well, the best one if you have, you know,
SEO portal, very big one and you don’t have to pay for it. But, yes, of course, paid search. But best for whom? It’s again the question, “Best for who?” For the probably… for the… for the… For the affiliates? For the affiliates… Well, if you are good in SEO, you can try
SEO, but probably you won’t get much. And Facebook? Do you see a lot of traffic coming from Facebook? It is coming, yes, especially for credit cards,
but paid search is number one. How strict is Google about financial offers? The ones who are working with it, they don’t
have problems really. There are some restrictions, but you can easily
cope with them. The different thing is that it’s a very high
competition, and if you’re a beginner, even if your average, it’s really hard to promote
offer wall offers because it’s… you cannot really compete. There are quite big guys on this market, big
affiliates, and normally they have special prices from the advertisers, and if you are
not a top, then probably you have the average price, and you cannot bid, you cannot compete
with them. Are you saying that financial offers are not
suitable for beginners in affiliate marketing? No, they are, but probably, probably…if
you’re hoping for, like, for a big income or big volume, you should start not from,
not from offer wall offers, but maybe from the, from the aggregator, you know. You will show me what it means, offer walls
and aggregator, because I’m kind of a little bit confused myself, so I would love to see
it. We will be able to see it? Yeah, sure. Cool. I wanted to show you what are the different
types of the websites that are used in finance affiliate marketing. Hi! Hello! Rifmir is responsible for the monetization
of all our traffic that we get. So, he is a kind of affiliate himself, right? Media buyer? Well, he is the… Yeah, you can you say so. So, here is, here is the type of website which
is called offer wall. So, when you happen to get here, you’ll see
all kind of offers from different companies. Here are the probability that they will give
it out. And normally this offer wall is set like this,
that depending on the traffic source you use this offer wall might look different, or maybe
depending on the region because not every offer is active in every region or a city. So, for example, a user from Facebook may
click on ad and be redirected here. Yes. And there are several offers. Yes, exactly. And you may choose because, you know, there
is a probability that you have already taken a loan from a couple of companies or you don’t
like somebody. So, you have the maximum choice and maximum
information to make the correct choice. So, the probability that you will actually
convert is higher. So, it’s advertised as a loan, but not with
a specific company. Yeah, it normally, it will say like, ‘Get
your loan fast.’ Or, “Get your loan for mostly hundred percent.” “Get your money now.” Something like this. All right. And you will get here and you’ll find the
information about different companies. So, the probability that you will actually
go somewhere is higher. Are these numbers real, are they based on
something or..? It depends on the affiliate. Sometimes, yes. But sometimes, no. Sometimes… Do you provide with that kind of creatives
your affiliates or they need to create them on their own? Many, many affiliates do it by their own because
they want to give their own statistics and adapt it to their type of traffic. Because we never know what keywords they use,
what traffic they use. So, this offer wall might be very different
depending on how you work with traffic and which keywords you use. But, yes, we have already ready-made solutions
and, like, for instance, we also get like refusal traffic from the microfinance companies
working online. So, sometimes if the person happens to go
to the microfinance company and he’s not issued a loan, they can redirect him to the offer
wall which we have created especially for this microfinance company, and then this offer
wall will be adapted already to… That’s smart. That’s nice. And Rifmir is actually, he’s responsible that
this offer wall is… So, how many leads do you generate daily? 20,000. 20,000 leads? Wow. That’s quite a number. Jesus Christ. And I will show you another type. This one is also very popular because you
can work through API with many kinds of companies. Here we see, it’s unfortunately in Russian,
but it can be in any language. So, here we see something like… here it’s
called United Credit Center. And you can just fill in the form, like, your
name and the sum that you need and for how long… Some basic information. Yes. And in the end your application will come,
you know, maybe to us, and our system depending on your data, it will send your application
to the banks or microfinance companies which have the highest probability to convert. So, that would be a main approach to promote
that kind of offers? Yes, because if you use it here, normally
if you fill in the application, then in the end you might be also shown an offer wall
again. Yes. So, like, for those who want to try to promote
loans that would be the best choice to go. If you create yourself, of course, it’s not…
it’s not so easy because you have to have an IT resource, some statistics and, yes,
a technical resource. So, it’s not easy, but you can take a ready
one from us, for instance, and work with it. So, we do… we’ve already done all this stuff,
you have to just generate traffic, like, to one window. So, your top affiliates that one that you
mentioned do it the same way pretty much? Yes, exactly. More or less. Yes. You told in one of your interviews that I
read in the internet, you told in 2013 that your average marginality is around 35%. Is that different since five years ago? Yes, of course. Is it lower or higher? It’s much lower. It’s around, I think, it’s around 13 now,
13-maximum 15, yeah. 15? Yes. All right. Why is that do you think? Because of the competition, I guess. Because of the competition… maybe because
of the fact that affiliate networks were trying hard to, you know, to take over the affiliates
and offering more and more and more. Maybe because also of the fact that quite
many big affiliates started to work directly with the, with the advertisers. You have offers in more than 20 countries? Yeah, in 25, I guess. Maybe, maybe more right now. Tell me, like, three biggest markets for you. Well, Russia. Now Ukraine is growing very fast. Spain and Poland. And is it mostly, like, Russian affiliates
run traffic to the software or you have some international people, like, from Spain or
Poland and… because they presumably know the market better? We have some international guys and not particularly
from Spain or Poland. They’re very different. Someone is from Scandinavia, someone from
England someone is from Georgia. But I would say the… at least half of the
traffic comes from the Russian-speaking guys. Not particularly from Russia, but from the
Ukraine or Belarus. So, there are no barriers to run offers in
any other countries? You don’t need to know, like, local customs
or whatever? It depends what country you’re working in,
but… Well, as the… as the experience of our affiliate
shows, yes. If I am… Like, let’s say I am Mexican. Will I be able to run financial offers in
Ukraine, let’s say? I think so, yes. If you are smart enough. Well, I am. I read that and I was astonished, I read that
you now generate 700,000 leads a day and that it’s too incredible number to me. I just can’t understand what this number really
means. Can you help me to understand what it is? Does it correlate with the amount of people
who apply or what is this number? It correlates, but not directly. Yeah. Like… So, basically we have two types of traffic,
like, direct traffic which come… when affiliate advertises concrete bank or micro finance
company, and he attracts person and person goes to the website of the bank or microfinance
company and fills in the application form. This is one type of traffic. And then, of course, then one person is one
lead. But the very big market is the, how do you
call it, brokerage, yes, aggregator. So, you create a website and you say that,
you know, apply here and you… and we will provide you the best offers from the best
banks or best credit cards. So, just leave your application and we will
direct you… So, you leave your application and through
API and through us your application will go to three banks or maybe five banks or maybe
ten banks. So, in the end one person can be five leads
or can be seven leads. And then we don’t know how they will convert,
but they can convert in nowhere, can convert one times or can convert a couple of times. And as for online, do you see a trend that
more and more loans are taken online? Yes, of course, more more loans are taken
online, and this is why finally the government started to regulate this niche because before,
you know, affiliates could write in their advertising like, “We’ll give out a loan
even to a homeless person.” And this would work. Now, of course, it’s more regulated, and we
are actually happy about it. The market is becoming more transparent. The Central Bank they know… like, now they
have a special department who is looking after the websites who are imitating the micro loan
companies online. There are such sites? Yes, yes, there are some. But some of the affiliates create their website
like this, but… Some are actually, you know, cheaters and
they… They can change conditions for a loan? Yes, yes. So, now the government started to monitor
what’s going on online in this niche, and they… they ban a lot of bad stuff, sometimes
they ban good stuff, but in the end I’m thinking that it will… it will all become more transparent,
more legal, hopefully. As for your plans, what other market do you
see attractive? Do you plan to expand? Right now we are looking into Latin America. Latin America and Africa, South Africa especially. I cannot say that we’re very big there, and
it’s not easy because we’re here, and they are there. Sometimes it’s also a matter of, you know,
taxes and transferring money, but currently we are… As we’re working with Spain, we are also focusing
on another Spanish-speaking countries in the Latin America region. South Africa is an English-speaking country. So, it can be, like… and it’s big as well. Africa is, Africa is another thing, yeah. It can be an attractive market. We don’t have many offers there. I think a couple of them. But already we’ve got the affiliates who try
them and… I also know that you run your conference,
FinAdTech it’s called, right? Yes. Is it good as a business itself or is just
to kind of support your affiliate network? What was the purpose to organize that conference? We wanted to concentrate more on European
market and we were looking for the opportunities to promote ourselves and we found none. There are many affiliate conferences, but
they all too general, and the finance segment is really small in there, it’s not dominating. And we tried to find, I don’t know, forums
or websites and again… So, we couldn’t actually realize where do
we have to promote ourselves in order to get more affiliates. So, the solution was obvious that we have,
we have to create our own product like this. And what are the other ways to attract affiliates? Competitions, of course. Tell me more. Yes. Because… I’m asking because I presume that in this
sector the competition for affiliates is kind of high. Yes, it’s common for Russian market, and I
think it’s not so common for other markets at least in financial segment that we really
do these huge competitions for the affiliates. It works like this that… Banks or microfinance companies who have extra
budget and who really want to attract more traffic and maybe promote their brand, they
give us extra marketing money, and we organized some promotional contests, which normally
last for like seven months, something like this. We had a contest where we gave out two Jaguar
cars. Really? Yes. It was a contest. So, the more points, the more tickets you
get, and in the end it was lottery. It was a big party when everybody came, like,
affiliates, advertisers, and it was real lottery. So, one guy, actually, our top affiliate,
won one car, and another car was won by a guy who just had one ticket. Oh, my God. Was he happy? He was crazy happy. We have a video. He was jumping and shouting. And… and last year we gave… we gave out
six Mercedes cars. Jesus. Really six cars. Also, same way like competition. The previous one which has finished in December,
we took 50 of our affiliates and 50 advertisers to a great party for three days to Abu Dhabi
in 5-star Hotel, and there we also had… For free? Yes, and there we had a… also a lottery,
where all these 50 people got some prizes. Like, the the most unexpensive one was iPhone,
but the most expensive one was the the wristwatch which costed hundred thousand euros. Jesus Christ. And all those prizes were provided by your
partners? Exactly, exactly. So, wristwatches and two Lexus cars. Yeah, two Lexus cars. And many other prizes. That was crazy. So, this is how you attract affiliates. Yeah, I see, a good way to attract affiliates. And right now, yes, we have this contest called
the Mission Panamera. So, everyone has a chance to win a Porsche
Panamera. But can also people from the outside of Russia
participate? Sure, sure. And they participate, and they can get prizes,
and they can get Panamera, and they can get everything. The problem is that many of the guys just
don’t believe it. Speaking of all of this, you know, competitions
and prizes, probably we have something for our audience, you know, our tradition, in
the end of every interview we provide our viewers with bonuses or prizes. Anything in your mind? Yeah, I have an idea. And it will not be a competition, but just
the prize for everyone who wants to try… who wants to try himself in the financial
affiliate network that everyone who registers at LeadGid and mentions to his affiliate manager
that he watched this interview he will get plus 10% of bonuses to his first payout. So, 10% more, basically. Exactly. So, you’ve heard it. It’s pretty simple. Just contact any of managers at LeadGid, tell
them that you watched the interview with ZorbasMedia and you will receive your 10% bonus to your
first payout. And for all of the international offers you’ll
get points and you can get prizes and win Porsche Panamera. Yeah, probably a Porsche, yeah. And don’t forget to subscribe to the channel
of ZorbasMedia. Guys are really cool. Bye bye. Thank you, Ksenia, it’s so cute.


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