Ezra Firestone (Ecommerce Legend) Interview w/ Charles Ngo (7-Figure Affiliate Marketer)


– Hey guys, it’s your boy Ngo. Today we have a very
special guest with me. For those of you guys
that don’t know who he is, his name is Ezra Firestone. So my intro’s not gonna
do him any justice, but I’m gonna give it a shot. Ezra Firestone is one
of the top influencers in e-commerce. So everyone in e-commerce knows who he is. He’s behind Smart Marketer, and on top of that he has
several eight figures brands. What’s your most famous brand you have? – First of all, let’s just
say this guy’s new nickname is Leg Drag, because if
you do Jiu-Jitsu with him, he just grabs your leg, grabs onto it like an
octopus and just snatches it. Yeah, so my most, hi, by the
way, thanks for watching. There is a dog here that you can’t see that is licking my foot. – They know who Romeo is. – Most famous brand is
Boom by Cindy Joseph. It’s on track to do around 25
million of revenue this year, which sounds kind of fancy and cool, but I’ve been working on that brand for seven or eight years, which I think is one of the
things that we’ll talk about, or that I think is worth talking about, is that what you don’t see
behind the scenes of… Maybe in the CPA world, hey,
you launch a quick campaign that does super well. I remember those days, I
remember those days at CPA. Bang, you launch a campaign,
it does really well. But when you’re looking at the potential of building a business that is sustainable for the long term, a brand, a community like the one you have here, like a group of people who
follow you and listen to you and buy things that you suggest to them because they have a relationship with you, that takes a while to build. – I think a lot of people in my space, so most of the people
here, are CPA marketers. And one of the big problems is yeah, you can make a lot of cash, but there’s no assets,
there’s no long-term play. So I definitely want to
pick your brain on that. And on top of everything we talked about, he also the SaaS. So what are some of the products you have? – So I have the app company for Shopify. We have 2,000 active paying members. Been at it for about a year. Software as a service is like a whole– – What’s the name of it? – It’s called Zipify.
– Zipify. – Yeah. Z-I-P-I-F-Y. Everything that we do in e-commerce is direct response-focused, which is why it sort of relates well to the CPA world. Landing page psychology and
optimization and upsells and sales funnels and
stuff that you leverage to sell other people stuff, you could also use to sell your own stuff. – So first question I have for you is let’s talk about e-commerce. ‘Cause a lot of my audience
are making the switch to e-commerce as just this wave that’s coming.
– Good move. – So when it comes to physical products, you go to AliExpress or
you go to Canton Fair, there are 50, 100 thousands of products that you could promote,
and a lot of people have this analysis paralysis
on what to promote. So can you give some tips in terms of just pure arbitrage, something that people
can buy and flip around with paid traffic? So what are some things you’re looking for psychologically-wise or price-wise? – Yeah, I think that when you’re
just getting into the game, impulse buys are easier to
sell than higher ticket items. So I would stay under
$30, average order value. Just because that’s easier for someone to pull out their
card and make a purchase. It’s personal.
– And you’re talking about from the consumer perspective,
not from our perspective. – Yeah, you’d probably buy
that for five or 10 bucks, you know, whatever it is. The other thing is if you’re
gonna make direct response for physical products work, I think you need at least a
buy for one, sell for four, and ideally a buy for one, sell for five or buy for one, sell for six. I mean, that’s even
better to make advertising work for physical products. – What do you mean, buy
for one and sell for six? – I mean, for example, if you buy a product for $5, you’re gonna have to
minimum sell it for 20. – Oh, that’s right, okay. Profit margins.
– Yeah, you gotta have, now the minimum that we do in our business is buy for one, sell for three, so I have certain products that I buy for 10 and sell for 30, but that because I have a community of several hundred thousand past buyers. I’m not going to direct cold
traffic with those offers. The offers that I’m going
to cold traffic with are buy for one, sell for five,
buy for one, sell for six. I give myself a little
bit more of that margin so I can test with advertising. And I want to talk about strategy with regard to any product
you’re gonna market, because here’s the interesting thing. We were talking about this. Niche communities, right? We belong to the niche
Jiu-Jitsu community, you belong to the niche CPA community. I grew up selling at the flea market. That’s a weird little sub-community. So everyone belongs to
these sub-communities, and there’s all these
different shared experiences that you can create
product offerings around. And so the one thing I wanna say is that when you’re going to do that, I think the overarching
strategy that you use when you’re getting started is more important than
the individual product. And so what I think that strategy is, or at least what I see with my students that I’m fortunate enough to have, 150,000 folks in my community,
several of them seven-figure, eight-figure e-commerce business owners, a lot of people who are
getting started drop shipping, and when I look specifically at the folks who are just starting
those drop ship businesses, the model that is most
prevalent is 30 to 90 second problem solution style video, which I heard you talking about. For example, there’s
this thing that you… When you’re sitting in your car, and you drop your phone it
goes in between the seats, and it’s like you’re
looking for it, you know? It’s this little leather case that sits in between the seats
that you drop the phone and it catches it. And it’s a little video,
and it’s like, hey, look, you drop this thing,
it’s a pain in the butt. You stick this in there, you
drop it, and now there it is. So it just shows the problem solution, and it goes straight
to a product long form, left/right sort of traditional
product offer page. And that sort of model of short
form problem solution video to traditional long form left/right well optimised product offer page is the model to launch these quick new, to test multiple products. ‘Cause at the end of the day, you’re gonna have to test, man. It’s just like CPA,
you’re gonna have to test a couple different product offerings. I think that initial model. Now of course, you know, I think eventually you want to
have a more robust sort of– – Start building to a brand. – Yeah, and you wanna have content, you wanna have more of a store, and you wanna have a blog. You wanna build a brand. You want a lot of those things, but when you’re just trying to launch, you probably wanna start with a quick little problem
solution video on Facebook, because the beautiful thing about a video is if someone watches 80% of that video, you can tag them on a pixel
list an retarget them. And with our brand, what
we’re noticing is that… So here’s what happened, right? What happened was, when I got
into the game back in ’05, people were still sitting at desktops, still sitting at laptops,
consuming the digital medium in long periods of time. So you could make a sale. It was search, find, buy back then. It was people using
Google search to find it. But you could make a
sale, an initial contact, first contact, because they
were at their desktop computers. Then what happened was over
the last, let’s say 10 years, obviously the consumption of
digital medium has gone mobile. People are using cell phones. And so what happened
was people are consuming in much shorter periods of time. – Everyone has ADD now. – Yeah, much shorter periods of time, but more times throughout the day. So the actual time of consumption, instead of 30 minutes at a time at once at a desktop, is now more, an hour, two
hours, three hours a day, but in little snippets of time. So here’s what’s happening, and this is a little tip for
people just getting started, is people are starting on mobile, right? And then they’re saving products they like and they’re moving to tablet
and desktop to make a purchase. So 67% of purchases start on one device and continue on another, and 40% of mobile ads that are viewed when the purchase is completed, it’s completed on a desktop computer. So if you’re just getting started, you run your awareness apps on mobile, you run your retargeting
on tablet and desktop, because that mimics the use behaviour. And when I taught this to my folks who were just getting in the game, it significantly increased
their conversion rate because it was a mimicking
of the user behaviour. Now, eventually for guys like you and I, we want to be running advertising
on mobile and desktop, awareness, running, you know what I mean? You want to do everything, but as a strategy for lowering
your cost for acquisition, mimicking that user behaviour of having your initial
advertising on a mobile device, which is where people start, and then you’re retargeting only to folks who are on tablet and desktop, will give you that ability to have a cheaper cost for
acquisition when you get started. – And a lot of this happens because you’ll find the product on mobile, but you’re not gonna pull
out your credit card. You may be on a subway, whereas on the desktop, I mean, there’s been so many times
before where I’m searching for something on Amazon, and boom, I’m on Facebook, there it is, and I have the 1Password app, so I can just one-click purchase. So that’s a very strong
strategy for lowering your cost. Excellent, and one other
thing you brought up that was very interesting about the passionate
clubs we’re a part of, so me and Ezra, we love
Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, so we have this–
– Charles just ripping my legs off, man. – So we have this inherent advantage, but the point is, every single one of you, if you’re into yoga, or
if you are a survivalist, then you’re gonna know these products, so why not stick to what you know? Rather than, dude, I don’t
mess with beauty products. I have beautiful skin. – You do have beautiful skin. You know, here’s the other thing. We all belong to ethnic groups, we all belong to religious communities, or some of us do. Everyone is a part of these little groups you don’t even realise
that you’re a part of. Through my wife, I’m a part
of the circus community, so I know a whole bunch of– – The circus community? – Yeah, she was a circus
performer for a while there. She went from yoga to– – She sounds like the
most interesting woman in the world, dude.
– She’s amazing. – You keep surprising me. – Anyways, the circus community is really, like, the way that yoga
was a fringe community 15 years ago, circus, in America,
anyways, not in Canada, it’s very prevalent in Canada, but in America it’s now
the fringe community. You’re starting to see
at the yoga studios now the yoga with the silks, right? – The acrobatic yoga. – Yeah, so there’s a lot of opportunity. And for anyone who’s looking for a market, check out the circus industry. In America there’s a lot of opportunity. You start selling those
silks that hang at home? You could probably do
pretty well with that. I should probably do that. You should probably do that, you know? But through your friends, the greater point that I wanted to make is through your friends, you also get to see
little sub-communities. I just start asking people, oh, what do you do for fun? Or, what are little communities
that you’re a part of? – So one tip I have for
you guys is most people are just looking at things
from product to product. Focus on the subculture themselves. – Yes. – For instance, obviously
the survivalist niche is very, very hot, has been very hot. But you’re not just
gonna promote one product and then you’re done. You have to understand so
that we can start upselling, cross-selling, e-mailing them products. – And one of the things that’s… Sort of a lingo term that I use for this is collective experience. What are the collective experiences that a group of people are having? – Ooh, that’s good. – Yeah, one of my big strategies, and I must have read this somewhere, but one of the things that you do when you are attempting to
bring a community together is you create lingo terms
for that community to use. It’s a sort of old
standard kind of strategy. – It’s like you’re starting a club. – Yeah, so this lingo
term that I’ve developed for my community at Smart
Marketer is collective experience. Look for the collective experience. Because it’s powerful, you know? – Interesting, so I wanna pick your brain on some more Facebook stuff. One thing that Smart
Marketer is very good at is the behavioural targeting. For us that are CPA marketers, we don’t do a lot of behavioural targeting because it’s one shot, we either
make the money or we don’t. But in the e-commerce space, obviously you’re looking at things from a much longer perspective. We collect their e-mail lists, plus we can target them based on how much of the video they consume. So can you explain what
behavioural targeting is and how people can implement it? – Sure, so essentially
the fundamental idea is that you know, if you are the owner of a product, and you’re attempting to
get someone’s attention, show them the product, and
then get them to buy it, that it’s gonna take
multiple touch points. Another lingo term is
multi-touch point marketing. I have a whole course on this subject. So I think that basically
it’s just a description of the way things are. This is not even a
strategy I came up with. It’s just how people are consuming, is you’re gonna need multiple touch points before you generate a conversion. So what we do is we start with a video ad, then based on how much of
that video ad you consume– – Isn’t it like the average
person needs to see something seven times before you buy it? – Yeah, and sometimes
less, sometimes more. But just check this out for a second. So our sales funnel is
video ad to article to, you guys are familiar with those, what’s the lingo term in CPA? – Articles, pre-sell page? – Yeah, like a pre-sell page. Doesn’t have to be fake, though. Doesn’t have to be a vlog. Could be a real, someone’s story. But anyways, ad, article, offer page, shopping cart, checkout select. Basically if you watch our video, and you don’t click through
to the pre-sell article, based on how much of
the video you watched, you might see a retargeting
ad for the pre-sell article or you might see a retargeting ad right for the product offer itself. You make it to the pre-sell article, and you don’t click through, we’re gonna retarget
you back to the article. You click through to the store page, we’re gonna retarget you
back to the store page. You make it to a product. So at every level we’re sort
of looking at what you did or didn’t do and then
running ads to retarget you. Now get this: my most powerful and
profitable ad campaigns… I break things down into three categories: awareness, retargeting, loyalty. Most people only know about awareness, and they don’t worry about loyalty. So if we know that
retargeting and loyalty, and I’m gonna explain loyalty in a second, is where most of the
conversions come from, the question is, what’s
the best awareness campaign to generate the most visibility so that we can retarget
people the most effectively? And that’s obviously a native video, because they don’t even
have to go to your website to get them on a pixel list. So we know that most of our conversions are coming from retargeting
and loyalty, right? Retargeting is pretty standard practise. But here’s where people
don’t really put much time, and where we make most of our money. We make 50% of our money
in the loyalty pillar. So basically if you buy from us, immediately you’re gonna start seeing ads for a product you didn’t buy. You’re gonna see a video for it. And now, let’s say you
watch 50% of that video for the product that you didn’t buy, and then you leave. We’re gonna retarget you with an image ad because we know you watched 50% about… So if we do these bought X, not Y ads– – So why an image ad and not
another, different video ad? – Because we want to specifically
use different mediums to try to get your attention. So a video about the
product and then an image about that same product, ’cause we know you watched
a certain percentage of our video. I spend $300 in a week
or something like that on one of those ads to make $10,000. The ROI on these loyalty
ads for bought X and not Y, and this is back to your point of why you wanna have multiple offerings, is once someone is a customer, and you’re using behavioural automation to target them based on stuff they haven’t bought from you yet, they know about your brand, they like you, and the RIO on that loyalty pillar is massive from an advertising
and e-mail perspective. Obviously we’re also
e-mailing these people offers. We’re sending them content. But the loyalty pillar is this underserved pillar of advertising. People who’ve bought
from you once in the past immediately, within the first 30 days, we’re trying to get a
second or third sale. Because here’s the
interesting thing about it: if I know, and this is kind
of where it gets a little more advanced for folks who’ve
been in the game awhile. If you’re not in the game you
might not yet be doing this, but eventually you will. So if I know that on average, if someone buys from me once, within 90 days I can get
two or three more purchases, then I’m gonna go out and lose money on this first sale because
I know I’m gonna make it up back here.
– On the back end. – Yeah. And this is the interesting thing. I did these… Kind of changed the way I looked at advertising and my business. I was stuck at like $5
million to $7 million a year. For years. – That’s a good problem to have. – It was nice, but I was
plateauing, you know. And I was trying to figure
out, what am I missing with regard to scaling my companies? I started doing these audits. I’ve been kinda known as the growth guy in
e-commerce for a while, so companies, like big $100
million e-commerce companies, I’ve signed contracts with NDAs and stuff, so I can’t mention the names, but they bring me in, they
pay me a good chunk of money, they’re like, look at their stuff and give them a growth plan. Over two years, they
give me their analytics. They show me their sales funnels. They give me access to everything. And what I realised was that
they were looking at marketing in a way that I was not
looking at marketing, and when I switched how
I was looking at things, my whole business, that’s
when I went to eight figures. Just this one change of
how I was looking at things was responsible for the growth. And so what they’re doing is they’re looking at one
channel of visibility, like, let’s say, Facebook
or their e-mail list, right? The way I looked at it was, if a Facebook campaign wasn’t
profitable, turn it off. If Google wasn’t working, turn it off. So it was like an ad campaign
was a very sort of… Linear specific thing. It either worked or it didn’t. Well, they look at all
their campaigns together, and they’re like, alright, well we’re super profitable on Facebook. We lose money on Google,
we lose money on YouTube, we lose money on Pinterest,
we make money on e-mail. So they were looking
at dollar in dollar out across the whole business, rather than trying to make each channel profitable.
– Just per channel. – Yeah, and so one channel
supports another channel, and in the end, they grow their
customer base much bigger, so then, when they run sale campaigns, their sales are much bigger so their profits are much bigger. It’s kind of a weird thing, but basically I’m now losing
money on a couple channels, but I’m profitable on e-mail marketing, I’m super profitable on organic, I’m super profitable on Facebook. I have several channels
where I’m buying customers at a loss, but in the aggregate, my company is growing much faster. So it was like this eye-opening thing where I looked at, no one said this to me. I just looked at all their data, and I was like, wait a minute. All these channels aren’t profitable. I asked them, why is that. Well, the way we look at it is, our overall marketing budget, our overall dollar in
dollar out, is profitable, so we wanna acquire as
many customers as we can on as many channels as we can to grow our customer base as big as we can so that when we run sale
campaigns, they’re bigger. And I was like, wow. It’s only a strategy
for later in the game, but oh my God, does it change everything. – Wow, that’s fucking mind-blowing. – Blew my mind. And it’s why I couldn’t
get to eight figures. And it’s why I will get
to nine figures now, because I understand
this more of like a… – This marketing ecosystem. – Yeah. And every channel supports
every other channel. And then also I realised that they were looking at their ad
campaigns in terms of, this is where I really
learned about loyalty. They hadn’t labelled this for me, but they were looking
at this loyalty pillar. I was only looking at awareness, traffic and conversion, right? I was only looking at that. I wasn’t looking at loyalty as a pillar that I could really invest in from an advertising
and marketing perspective. – I mean, this is very important, because most CPA marketers, we promote the product, it
either makes money or it doesn’t, and the whole concept of,
we’ve got their e-mail, or, hey, let’s start building a brand, it’s just, so there’s all new stuff. – And it’s a longer– – Just a longer play. – It’s a longer play, but the
interesting thing about it, as someone who came from the CPA world, and I very much respect the CPA world. I think it’s an awesome business model. But what I was interested in was an asset that I could
sell at a later date. I wanted to build a snowball
that would grow over time. I wanted to spend three or
four years developing something that was worth something
that was a tangible asset. Because I’d spent a lot
of time making cash, and that was nice, but then I was building
other people’s brands. And so I really wanted
to invest in something that I could care about
over the long-term, and it’s been more fulfilling and more fun and more profitable. But it does that little bit
longer of a grind, you know? – So one thing a little bit more smaller and more tactical. You’re very familiar with
different e-commerce brands. Obviously makeup and survivalists. I am curious. If someone were to pick a product, and let’s just say they
picked the Survival Nation. Okay, so they’re trying
to sell a flashlight. Back in the day, if you
had the right offer, it’s just 18 to 35-year-old men, no targeting, because
there’s not much competition. Boom, you’re making money. And now there’s behavioural
targeting, flex targeting, and a bunch of different targeting. So what are you looking for? What tools are you using, what
demographic are you using? How are you targeting the initial people? – I mean, I kind of live in
Facebook’s Audience Insights. I love Facebook’s Audience Insights tool. I’ll go and Google the top TV shows. I’ll go and Google the top magazines. I’ll find those–
– So like audience affinity and stuff like that. – Yeah, I’ll find those niche audiences of survival magazines, and then I know that New
York, California, Texas, Utah, Pennsylvania, and Florida. – Highest converters. – Those are gonna be my best states, so I might start there. I might start just using Texas. I’m looking to see, where
can I buy a conversion? And then obviously I’m
gonna expand from there. But I’m into geo-targeting, I’m into niche behavioural targeting, I’m into age range targeting. I also know that for me, 55 to 64, is way more profitable
than 45 to 55, 35 to 44. – What are your thoughts
on men versus women? – I personally enjoy brands that are targeting women in particular. I was raised by a number of women. I find that more comfortable, but I also think that there’s a lot of… Money to be made and value to be added targeting men, as well. It’s just my preference. – Not to stereotype, but I
find with female campaigns, there’s that whole impulse buying. They’re more likely to do that. – Think about the beard oil thing, right? All the lumberjack dudes just
impulse buying $9 beard oil. – Do you use it? – No. I draw the line at like,
I’m not gonna be rubbing some schmear on my face. Obviously I sell cream and I use my cream, but there’s just a– – Wait, you use Boom by Cindy? – For sure!
– Really? – I love that stuff. Look, I got it on right now. Look, man, listen: your
skin is an organism. It lives and breathes. You want to feed it. And listen: this is
not to down-talk anyone who sells beard oil. Obviously it’s a great market. I got a lot of friends
in the beard oil market. But I’m already classified as a hipster, which I don’t necessarily agree
with that classification– – I know, man. He lives right next to a farm. – So I don’t think I’m sort
of ironic or sardonic enough to be a hipster. Anyways, let’s not get into
the hipster conversation. No offence to hipsters, because
a lot of my friends are– – Isn’t your audience hipsters? – I have some, I have some, yeah. I think hipster’s cool, man. I’m all about it. But meaning, the way that I
present myself in the world has now become classified as
what a hipster looks like. Even though I did not
identify with that community. It’s whatever. – That’s what happens
when you have a man bun and a beard, man.
– You know what I mean? – So you’re telling me you did it first before the hipsters did. – Well, I will tell you that yes, I had this hairstyle and stuff before it became super popular. And then all of a sudden
it was the thing to do, not that I did anything
to bring it into play, but it was just how I
presented myself in the world, and then it became a thing. I don’t wear the flannels and stuff, so I’m not like that. I haven’t made it quite
into lumberjack culture. I don’t have a fashion axe. You’ve seen those things, fashion axes? – No. – Okay, it’s like an axe
you wear for fashion. – Really?
– Yeah, it’s a fashion axe, bro. Sell, that’s a good market, fashion axes. – So alright, one more
question before we wrap it up. I want to switch gears because your life… Even though marketing consumes you, you’re a lot more than your work. And something that has really
impressed me about you, we haven’t known each other that long, but what I noticed you’re good at, you’re an expert at many things. For instance, people don’t know this, but he’s a black belt in judo. Obviously you’ve mastered
personal branding with Smart Marketer. You’ve mastered Facebook traffic, you’ve mastered e-commerce. So what I’m trying to get to here, and on top of all of this, don’t let the beard fool
you, but he’s young. He’s 29. – No, I turned 30 – Turning 30. – I know, I am 30 now. I’m in 30s officially. – Alright, dude, high five. – It’s good to be in your 30s. – So I’m curious: what are your thoughts on mastery, discipline, how to somewhat accelerate learning? ‘Cause I noticed, everyone
has these big dreams, but they don’t actually
make them into reality. – Yeah, well, I mean, I think that… First of all, I love this concept. I love this ideology, and
I love that word, mastery. And I think really, the skillset that you
want as a human being, the only skillset that you want, is the skillset of mastery, which is simply the willingness
to put your attention in one place consistently over time. You pick up an instrument
for 30 minutes a day, you’re gonna get better at it. And that’s actually what
it takes to get good at Facebook ads, to get
good at product selection, to get good at Jiu-Jitsu. It’s really the only
skillset that you need. The problem with it, and what people… The issue that people face is that it takes an eternal vigilance. It takes a daily grind, and it’s not fun. And it’s uncomfortable. And you’ve got to work
through scar tissue. And you’ve got to come
up against plateaus. And you’ve got to fail. But really, just that
willingness to sit down, consume content, implement
it, look at what happened, if you have that dogged determination, you listen, what does
every Olympic athlete have in common? They have a coach. They train, they are at it every day. – They have grit. – They have grit, and if you listen to all
these success stories in the entrepreneurial world, which is the world that
we’re talking to right now, everyone comes back to, I stayed with it. The 20-year overnight success. And really, I’m not anything special. I’m just some dude off
his couch in New York City who happened to be interested
in e-commerce at an early age. I have no special gifts or talents, other than that I was willing
to put in the work over time. And I think that anyone
can do that, really. If you’re willing to go for it, and it doesn’t mean it’s gonna be easy. Hey, you might get lucky. I kind of think that my
first store, I got lucky. I got into e-commerce
at a really young age, I picked up a really good market. It was easy to do search
engine optimization. I feel like a lot of cards fell, and I kept thinking, man,
maybe I’m super lucky. ‘Cause this thing worked out for me, or this thing worked for me. I always thought it was luck. And then I realised, wait a minute, no. There’s a reason my stuff keeps going well and other people’s
stuff isn’t necessarily, who are trying to do the same thing. It’s ’cause I stick with it.
– First of all, luck, one thing I realised is this is why I moved to New York City: because you can control your luck. For instance, I moved to New York City, I’ve only been here for six weeks, but the other day I was invited
to that Shopify Mastermind, and because I was in New York
City, I was able to go there. And because you’re in New York– – People might argue, oh
here these two dudes are, sitting on their high horse, they’ve made millions of dollars, easy for them to talk about. I was the poorest person that
I knew, pretty much, as a kid. I ate the school lunches, I
had hand-me-down clothing. We didn’t have any money. I didn’t start out with anything. I was working a job. I moonlighted my business. I was working 80 hours a
week managing a yoga studio when I built my first e-commerce business. So I only had two to three hours a night after working a full, 10-, 11-hour day. Get home at 11:00, eat dinner
with my now-wife at 11:30, and then I’d work for three or four hours. You can do this, even if you’re grinding, even if you’re hustling. And that’s how I created, I didn’t, you didn’t come from any kind
of special crazy background that allowed you–
– I learned this in school. – Yeah, you know what I mean? Yes, we have made it in this industry now, but it wasn’t always this way, and these viewpoints and this content is actually coming from our
experience of having done this. And so it is possible
for you, if you feel like you don’t have a lot of time or you don’t have a lot of money or you don’t have maybe access to the network that you’d like. You just gotta put yourself out there. – Like I said, back to manufacturing luck, because I’m in New York,
you’re in New York, so now we can hang out.
– Now we’re chilling, cross-promoting, talking.
– Chilling. So one more thing I
want to comment on is… There’s this thing I
heard that I really like, but never compare your chapter 10 to someone else’s chapter 100. For instance, with Ezra, I’ve
known of Ezra for a few years. And with Ezra, now you
have roughly, let’s say, close to 50 employees. I’m not anywhere near that. I’m at around less than 10 employees. Hopefully I can get to 50 employees, but I’m not beating myself up, because he’s been doing
this longer than I have. And I’m just realising
just one step at a time. – The beauty of it is, and we talked about this
a little bit yesterday, if you see someone who has
something, celebrate it. Because you know what? It’s possible. Wow, look at that. And then go ask them,
hey, how did you do that? That’s been my strategy. I’ve never been too
egotistical to ask for help. And in fact, I can look back at pretty much every major leap forward, and it’s because I went to someone who I thought was good at something, and I said, hey, could
you help me with this? I’m interested. You’re always a student. You always are learning. There’s always opportunity to grow. And once you think you’re
hot shit and you made it and you’re dope, and I’m not saying don’t have self confidence, and I’m not saying don’t
recognise your own value and I’m not saying don’t have swag and walk through the
world like you’re the man or you’re the woman, because you are. But also know that there’s more, that there’s value to be had from recognising other
people’s special talents. I’m learning a lot just
hanging out with you, looking at how you look at your brand. Looking at your branding. Talking about stuff. You can always be a student
if you’re willing to be. – And that’s something very important. For me, I’m not just looking at people who make more money than me. But I’m open-minded, where I’m constantly buying Kindle books. Or even that waiter at the restaurant can teach you something
about people skills. So I’m always just having this radar of every single person can
teach you something in life. Wow, so that’s a great way
to end this conversation. I just wanna thank Ezra
Firestone for his time. For my audience, if people
want to know more about you, where can they go? – You can go to SmartMarketer.com. Or zipifyapps.com. I’ve got courses, trainings, blogs. Hopefully I’ll have you
on my podcast, my blog. In fact, I already interviewed
you for one episode that’s gonna be coming out, so if you want see Charles Ngo, in about a week or two, I don’t know when you’re gonna post this, but I’ll put it on my blog, too. – I’ll blast that out on my e-mail. – Cool.
– Alright. Thanks again.
– Thank you. – Take care, guys.

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